I was talking to my mother and mentioned someone hung himself. She immediately chastised my poor grammer and insisted that it should be hanged. But I'm curious.
I would never say, "I hanged out with my friends."
And, of course, we all know about "The stockings were hung by the chimney with care."
But what about saying, "He hung himself from the rafters?"
I tried checking some dictionaries and grammar guides, but found mixed answers. So, is this one of those evolutions of language? Or am I missing something in the tense being used?
I would never say, "I hanged out with my friends."
And, of course, we all know about "The stockings were hung by the chimney with care."
But what about saying, "He hung himself from the rafters?"
I tried checking some dictionaries and grammar guides, but found mixed answers. So, is this one of those evolutions of language? Or am I missing something in the tense being used?
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Re: hung?
Fri, February 8, 2008 - 4:16 PMIt has been my understanding that this is one of those quirks of English: the term for strung-up-by-the-neck has its own set of rules that is separate from stockings or friends or any other meaning of the word "hang".
Your mom is right, but it only applies in this one context (which is why it's so hard to remember).
Now, if anyone here knows WHY this word gets a different past tense, i would love to know!
(ps - "grammar" has no "e". sorry to be such a stickler i just can't help myself *laugh*) -
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Re: hung?
Fri, February 8, 2008 - 4:33 PMOMG, I'm sooooo mortified! The "e" in grammar has always been one of my pet peeves and here I go making the same mistake. Can I blame it on fast typing?
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Re: hung?
Fri, February 8, 2008 - 5:00 PMYou did (in your original post) put "grammar" later, so your typo' justification seems good.
On topic...
I heard about "hanged" applying to the "string was around the neck" situation, and not any other usage of "to hang".
Why? I don't know. Maybe life/death is considered special, over just hanging objects? -
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Re: hung?
Fri, February 8, 2008 - 5:01 PMYour admirable thinking is lofty. I suspect it has more to do with wishing to avoid referring to male endowments. -
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Re: hung?
Fri, February 8, 2008 - 5:14 PMI almost mentioned a well-hung man, but I thought it might be inappropriate. :-)
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Re: hung?
Fri, February 8, 2008 - 5:31 PMAnd therefore the reason for the need to tell the difference between:
• a well hung man
• a well hanged man -
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Re: hung?
Sat, February 9, 2008 - 8:00 AM>>>>>>>>And therefore the reason for the need to tell the difference between:
• a well hung man
• a well hanged man <<<<<<<
I once used a line that played on this difference in a song. The phrase was "hung like Absalom." (For strangers to the Old Testament, Absalom was a son of King David and he, Absalom, died when his hair was caught in a branch while he was riding.)
I got questions such as, "So, how big was Absalom's dick?"
Exasperated, I would say, "That's the wrong hung! He was hung from a tree a died."
I *could* have said "hanged like Absalom" and saved myself the trouble. But I wanted the humor that came from knowing the reference *and* getting the joke. But in this case, the joke was on me.
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Re: hung?
Fri, February 8, 2008 - 6:00 PMAfter even more research, I wonder if that's the case. There are just different forms of "to hang" - "to be hanged" vs "to hang?"
And, does it make a difference if it's transitive or intransitive? He was hanged - vs - he hung himself?
Hmmm.... curiouser and curiouser.
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Re: hung?
Sat, February 9, 2008 - 11:59 AMI don't know why, but
He hanged himself
He was hanged
Maybe it just comes from the old court language, "the prisoner shall be hanged by the neck until he is dead," type of thing, but I would never use "hung" if death and necks were involved: my mother would whack me and my grandmother would spin in the grave. -
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Re: hung?
Sat, February 9, 2008 - 1:17 PMI always loved that bit about "hanged by the neck until dead." Do we sometimes hang people by the neck until they are almost dead, but not quite? -
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Re: hung?
Sat, February 9, 2008 - 3:02 PMHeather - "Do we sometimes hang people by the neck until they are almost dead, but not quite?"
Apparently it's something that happened quite a lot! Not intentionally, of course, but supposedly it's not as easy to hang someone as it looks in the movies. Well, that's my gruesome addition to what's been a pretty entertaining thread so far ;-) -
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Re: hung?
Sat, February 9, 2008 - 9:53 PMYes. From what I've picked up through some of my reading over the years, one of the main tricks with hanging a person correctly (so that they die quickly) is to place the knot in the correct position; this apparently affects whether or not the sudden drop will break the neck. If this is not done right (the knot is wrong, positioned wrong, etc.), then the person will slowly suffocate. Not pleasant to watch, and even less pleasant to experience.
Or so I've read :) -
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Re: hung?
Sun, February 10, 2008 - 7:14 AMThe whole idea of public executions is so horribly gruesome. I can't imagine taking the kids to the town square to see someone hanged or beheaded or whatever. The evolution of society can be rather interesting.
And here's a story that funny in a really sad sort of way. A friend of a friend tried to hang himself, but he was too tall and wound up just standing there. Hearing that story brought me to one of those moments where you don't know quite whether to laugh or cry. Certainly, it's awful that he wanted to kill himself, and good that it didn't succeed. But funny-sad that he didn't realize his height in relation to the rope or whatever.
It's almost as bad as some kids in my area who died while bungee jumping off an old train trestle. The bungee cords were slightly longer than the height of the bridge. Didn't they think to measure it before jumping? I mean, seriously, couldn't they just through it down first and see if it lands?
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Re: hung?
Sun, February 10, 2008 - 7:38 AMHeather - The first story *is* really funny in a dark way, and the second story just sad. Did you friend find it funny when he landed on his feet?
Erica - I believe the guillotine was invented because of the inefficiency of hanging (though I could be wrong and I'm too lazy to check at the moment). -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: hung?
Sun, February 10, 2008 - 11:38 AMI didn't intend to say the bungee-jumping story was funny in any way. That is definitely sad. The bizarre ending of the story is that the families successfully sued and won big money from the railroad company that owned the property, even though the kids were illegally tresspassing and everything was posted and fenced and locked in. I can't imagine how that ruling went through. I mean, that's like suing me because you break into my house and hurt your back while trying to steal my tv. Ugh! -
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Re: hung?
Sun, February 10, 2008 - 11:43 AMHeather - "I didn't intend to say the bungee-jumping story was funny in any way."
Sorry if I gave the impression I thought you were. Kind of lame though that the family could sue and win - wasn't it the parents' job to teach their kids to play safe?
In an only slightly related topic, I've always thought a comedy death would be a great way to go. I've given my friends permission to laugh if it happens. And if it does, I hope I have a moment of realization so I can go out laughing.
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Re: hung?
Sun, February 10, 2008 - 3:11 PMI had a class where we had to write our own obituary. I made mine some amusing accident involving a banana peel and a motorcycle or something silly.
On some level, I think it's normal to deal with death with a sense of dark humor. Some things are too serious to take seriously, ya know? I'm a nursing student right now, my sister's an EMT, my mother and aunt are nurses. I grew up surrounded by a bit of gallows humor. -
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Re: hung?
Sun, February 10, 2008 - 3:47 PMHeather - Two doctors as parents, medical magazines textbooks featuring strange growths, and things in jars. Plus my mom played harpsichord. We *were* the Adams Family! ;-)
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Re: hung?
Sun, February 10, 2008 - 10:02 PMRe: not dead: read Neal Stephenson's Baroque Cycle; quite a lot of the last book has to do with having enough cash or goods to tip the hangman as way of ensuring a quick, relatively painless, death. Otherwise he had lots of ways to make you suffer.
Also there was the punishment of being hanged, drawn and quartered, which I *think* was done in that order. -
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Re: hung?
Mon, February 11, 2008 - 4:58 AMDeborah - Well that certainly makes the specificity of "hanged until *dead*" seem more than a dramatic grammatical flourish. Thanks for the gruesome reading recommendation! I actually have a book kicking around that I have yet to read (and may never!) that's about how frequent it was for people to be accidentally buried alive once upon a time (not as a punishment but merely a rather horrible mistake). A whole book on the subject seems a bit hard to take. It all makes the guillotine start to look positively humane! -
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Re: hung?
Mon, February 11, 2008 - 2:42 PMYes, it's actually quite difficult to confirm that someone is really dead. It was terribly difficult in the old days to distinguish between death and coma or other cases of extreme respiratory and cardiac depression. Back then, they would just hold a mirror to the nose and look for fog. Now, we have EKGs and advanced stethoscopes and all of that. The difficulty and common problem of burying people alive is really the reason we started to embalm bodies before burial.
It's interesting now to see a trend to "green burials," where bodies are not embalmed and left to return to the earth naturally. I have hard that it's only allowed in a few states now, but spreading. I think I would much prefer that. I've always said that I'd like to be buried without chemicals or coffin, simply placed in the ground with a tree planted over me, so that my body could feed the tree and become part of it.
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Re: hung?
Mon, February 11, 2008 - 3:31 PMNeat, I didn't know that about embalming...I thought it was a presentation thing...not that I'd actually thought about it much. I'd also like to be tree food (something I have thought about a fair bit), or cremated if that wasn't possible. Though I've read that we tend to have eaten so many preservatives that it takes much longer for our bodies to break down.
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Re: hung?
Fri, February 8, 2008 - 4:39 PMOne authoritative-sounding take on this issue:
www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/hanged.html
I find this site to be pretty useful! -
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Re: hung?
Fri, February 8, 2008 - 6:23 PMThis discussion calls to mind an exchange from one of my favorite movies, "Blazing Saddles," in which our hero, Bart (played by Cleavon Little), returns to the railroad workers camp after having been arrested by the sheriff. One of his companions cries, "Bart! I thought you was hung!" "I am," he replied with a grin.
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