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When referring to a group of individuals with a collective name, would the case agreement not be singular?
For example:
KISS were on American Idol. - vs - KISS was on American Idol.
I heard the former on the radio last night. I was nearly asleep and it woke me in annoyance. KISS is the singular name of the band. If one wants to use the plural form, then perhaps one could say, "The members of KISS were on the show."
It seems to me that if one is referring to a single group, the verbs should then be singular. Whereas, if one is referring to members of a group or a number of groups, the plural would be appropriate.
There are countless examples in my mind of singular names for groups. Of course, there are exceptions. The Supremes were famous. The Beatles came to America. The Rolling Stones have had countless farewell tours. Yet these exceptions by their very names are plural.
For example:
KISS were on American Idol. - vs - KISS was on American Idol.
I heard the former on the radio last night. I was nearly asleep and it woke me in annoyance. KISS is the singular name of the band. If one wants to use the plural form, then perhaps one could say, "The members of KISS were on the show."
It seems to me that if one is referring to a single group, the verbs should then be singular. Whereas, if one is referring to members of a group or a number of groups, the plural would be appropriate.
There are countless examples in my mind of singular names for groups. Of course, there are exceptions. The Supremes were famous. The Beatles came to America. The Rolling Stones have had countless farewell tours. Yet these exceptions by their very names are plural.
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Re: plural or singular
Sat, May 30, 2009 - 9:51 AM>>>>>The Rolling Stones have had countless farewell tours.<<<<<
No, The Who have done multiple farewell tours; the Rolling Stones have never done a farewell tour.
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Re: plural or singular
Tue, June 2, 2009 - 8:29 AMHeather - Always a tricky one since the correct way to say it often sounds incorrect!
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Re: plural or singular
Tue, June 2, 2009 - 12:26 PMGene Simmons and Paul Stanley own the trademarks and images associated with Kiss (other members were excluded.)
For example, the make-up and costuming images and likenesses belong legally to them, and appearances are subject to the legal consequences of free market liability.
The question is raised here, "Does Gene Simmons have the legal resources to cause such bad grammer or inappropriate vernacular to be subject to the same tone of logic?"
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Re: plural or singular
Sun, June 14, 2009 - 9:04 PMWhile collective nouns should usually be treated as singular: a herd of antelope is moving across the savanna; a flock of seagulls flying over the marina; a wobble of naturists is scaring the kiddies, etc, it could be argued that it's easier to deal with the individuals as a whole unit. Where the number is known, e.g. the four members of KISS, there is the argument that the group is interchangeable with all members (plural);
So, we might have 'KISS was my first concert (they actually were my first concert when I was nine), however 'KISS is on at 7' sounds a bit awkward, compared to 'KISS are on at 7'. It becomes more interesting when you talk about a band splitting up: 'The band is splitting up' seems fine, 'The Cure is splitting up' doesn't sound quite right; and where a band with a plural name is concerned, 'The Smiths has split up' or 'The Stone Roses was on last' both sounds truly awful.
I would suggest it's similar to Second person, singular/plural. As we use 'You' for both singular and plural, in the place of 'thou', grammatically we tend to treat both forms of second person as plural.
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